In the world of business, customer experience is everything. As consumers, we have all had frustrating experiences with companies that leave a bad taste in our mouths. It's these negative experiences that motivated Daniel Viduya, customer experience expert and guest on the Jeff and Daniel Viduya podcast, to become passionate about authentic customer service.

In their conversation, Jeff and Daniel Viduya discuss how authentic customer experience is not just about how businesses should behave when customers have an issue. It's about creating a culture of empathy and respect for all interactions. They also talk about the importance of hiring employees who already possess good manners and empathy, rather than trying to teach them these traits. They share examples of exceptional customer service experiences, including how one airline representative empathized with a customer over a stuck luggage handle, and how a person helped translate for a non-English speaking customer at a pharmacy.

The podcast also highlights the importance of behavior in customer service, which can be measured through key performance indicators (KPIs). By focusing on authentic customer experience and measuring it through KPIs, businesses can improve their customer service and create a culture that prioritizes the customer.

Another topic discussed in this episode is failed payment recovery, or how to handle collections in a friendly and customer-centric way. Jeff and Daniel talk about how failed payments are a common issue with subscriptions and how following up with customers in a personalized and empathetic way can increase customer satisfaction and lifetime value. Daniel shares his own experience with a telecom company that stood out because of its white-glove customer service, and emphasizes the importance of treating customers like VIPs.

Overall, this podcast provides valuable insights into how businesses can improve their customer service by prioritizing authentic experiences, hiring the right employees, and measuring behavior through KPIs. By implementing these practices, businesses can turn failed payments and other customer issues into opportunities to strengthen customer relationships and increase customer lifetime value.

Listen here.

Transcript:

Daniel Viduya  01:13

You know, and you know many people throw shade about that, but that's okay. But remember, people shade is meant for lounging, not for throwing?

Jeff  01:32

Daniel, we're good to go.

Daniel Viduya  01:34

Yep, we're good to go.

Jeff  01:34

You sound great.

Daniel Viduya  01:36

Yeah, I sound sniffly. But yeah.

Jeff  01:39

Oh, yeah, I saw Well, you know, he breaks you know, we'll we can edit anything out while but how about? How about you introduce yourself. And just quick note, before we do that Daniel and I got connected via LinkedIn. And we started talking about authentic customer experience and lots of other stuff. And I was just like, hey, let's hold off, or station till we can record it. And here we are a few weeks later. And, and so talk about yourself, your company and and then we can get into some of these topics.

Daniel Viduya  02:08

Absolutely. Thanks for having me today. Jeff. My name is Daniel. I'm originally from the Philippines. But my roots come from the southern part of United States. So we're son of Crisco running a MFI. I've been in the customer service and sales field for more than a decade now. I'm starting with a traditional billing and sales for those of you who've had mobile phones before well till now, but the traditional mobile phones before. And I just eventually grew to this, you know, from from doing customer service to promoting customer service. That's what I do now. That's what I'm passionate about. Yeah.

Jeff  02:43

No, and it comes through. Absolutely. And we started talking about this whole authentic customer experience and start talking about LTV and all these other items in there and everything. And so I remembered when you started talking, I'm like, I can just tee up the subject for Daniel, you can just get going on where passion where did this passion for making sure that your customers experiences are authentic? Because not everybody thinks like that. I know. It's shocking. But some people, it's a job, I just want to see these people get launched and loaded and then they'll worry now so

Daniel Viduya  03:16

you know, it's so funny, because many people think that yeah, you get paid for that job. And that's that was me before I sat in that seat, and I was doing it for the job. I really never cared for it honestly. And you know, until I became the customer that desperately needed help, until I became that person who was charged multiple charges on my phone bill. Yeah. And I was seeking for help. And I was just getting the runaround. And they would keep on telling me that they're sorry, until it sounded like it was a sarcastic sorry. And I said to myself,

Jeff  03:49

say sorry to each other. And I'm like, come on, you gotta mean it like so. Yeah. I mean,

Daniel Viduya  03:53

it's like, but you know, it's they're saying they're sorry, because they're simply either they're caught, or they're just obliged to, but they're really not sorry. And that's where I set on myself. I was so high in mind in my seat to be that person too. And now I'm on the other side of the table, and I desperately need help. And I realized that authentic customer experience is something that we need to be promoting. It's not just customer service. It's authentic customer service. Yeah. From that from them there on. I changed my perspective of viewing and handling customer service.

Jeff  04:26

Yeah, no, that's amazing. And do you feel that that covers everything from the moment the customer signed up? Are you talking about like the second that there's an issue? Where's your perceptive perception on that lead?

Daniel Viduya  04:41

It's not even about stages. It's because the thing is, when we're talking about authentic customer experience, we think when should we start doing it? Yeah. When in fact is it's not about that. It's about when should we, it's about how we should be treating people. It's how we should be acting. It's how we should be behaving ourselves basically split it up. That's where authentic customer experiences begin. Let me just

Jeff  05:05

Oh, yes. Bothering me too much one. So we'll hit pause and we'll go yep, don't worry about it. Yep. editor's will take care of all Yeah, yeah.

Daniel Viduya  05:15

There you go. Well, it felt somewhere. So I'll have my Dyson take care of it. Okay, going back. Okay. So why do I say that it begins with how our behavior is, because that's what authenticity is. There's a difference between authenticity and just acting it out, when you say to someone that you have to treat your customers this way, because they're paying you that's acting it out. That's asking them to behave in a specific way in exchange for something. Whereas if we talk about authentic customer experiences, where we should treat the people that they wait, the way you want to be treated, is because you know that that's the right thing to do.

Jeff  05:55

Absolutely. Well, let me ask you this, because whenever I hear that authentic versus acting out, it always sets up a question in my mind, and there's no, I don't feel like there's a wrong answer. But there's better right answers. But, yeah, go ahead. What's the profile of the people that you hire to do that job to make sure that they are authentic, versus just going through the motions.

Daniel Viduya  06:21

The profile that we hire is not based on a profile, but more in the culture. We, we evaluate them and we ask them, we interview them, and we see how they fit the culture, the company that I work for, which is support zebra, because the culture we have within the company is very different. It's an authentic, caring, and family oriented company. And I know that many, many people, many of our listeners out there, don't believe in family that work is a teamwork thing. You could put it in that perception to, but in our culture, in the work culture that we have, we care for one another. Yeah, we treat each other as human beings, even if it's a supervisor, a chief executive officer, a VP, no matter what the rank is, we are all human beings. And at the end of the day, we should treat each other with respect, we should treat each other with humility, we should learn how to humble ourselves because we are still people altogether all the same. So we evaluate them if they fit that culture, because if we know that they feel that culture of caring and humility and family and, and all the good stuff there, than we know that they could treat our customers, right.

Jeff  07:30

That's amazing. Yeah, that's, I love it. Now, skills can be developed.

Daniel Viduya  07:35

You could train people, you could teach them something. People go to school all the time we, we learn new things, but sometimes good manners and and that caring attitude, it's not something you could really teach someone, it's hard something that one chooses to do.

Jeff  07:50

It's hard to retrain the sociopath, right, like, exactly. It's

Daniel Viduya  07:53

hard to train, what is an innate behavior. And so sometimes we don't really evaluate people with skills unless the customer tells that this, these are the profiles that we need, but we also heavily evaluate them with the culture and the fit.

Jeff  08:08

No, I hear you, I, you know what, like, even if you go to the coffee shop, you know, there's the people who are just like doing the job. And then they're the people who they care to me, you know, that they care about your order. Right. And that's,

Daniel Viduya  08:21

yeah, it's, you know, a great example would be United Airlines. When I was checking my baggage on my way to Japan from from New York. I decided to stick in my KitchenAid mixer and one of my luggage.

Jeff  08:36

That's right.

Daniel Viduya  08:38

It was crazy, because I started so the name of my KitchenAid mixer is Judy Garland. That's what I named her because, and, and yes, and my mini KitchenAid is called Liza Minnelli. But the Garland was stuck in the luggage and she wasn't happy about it. So she decided to take revenge. When I pulled up the handle of my luggage, it wouldn't go back down. And I was like, Oh my Lord, what will I do about this? And so as I was checking into United Airlines, and the airline representative was there, she was saying, it's like, oh, no, I didn't do that as an i No, no, it's not you. It's me. I'm so sorry. I don't know what to do with this. Should I kick it open? Should I, you know, I don't know what to do with it. It doesn't go down. It's like, It's okay, honey, I got you. We'll just classify this as an oversized luggage but it's free. You're good to go. Enjoy your flight to Japan. You know, it's that experience. She kind of said low. I was like, Well, I didn't do that. You know, it's well, that'd be oversized baggage, sir, but you're gonna have to pay. No, she decided to empathize with me as a human being. It's like I get you. That's okay. Don't worry about it. Just check this in and go to your flight. Enjoy your flight to Japan. That's what she did to me. Wow, that's authentic customer experience right there because she knew that Judy Garland was inside there. And I was and she was not happy about it. So you know,

Jeff  09:49

do you know how do you know how you repay her? You gave her what I call a Thanksgiving Day story. When people are sitting around on bank Skip it. Oh, let me let me tell you this story

Daniel Viduya  10:03

about this nice lady United Airlines who helped me with my luggage because Judy Garland and slide was complaining. So yes. You know, it's that it's just connecting with human human and knowing that look, I was in trouble, I needed help. And she tried to help me in any way that she can if we didn't kick off the handle off luggage, but then that's that right there. Yeah, you know, it's authentic customer experience, or the time that I saw someone in CVS, you know, needing help with claims because he couldn't speak English. And I said, Look, I don't work for CVS, but I'd be happy to help and translate for you. What do you need?

Jeff  10:37

Yeah, that's that's empathy right there, which is the number one thing that we look for when, when hiring people, and maybe they don't have the skills that we need. But we want that we want that empathy, right, we want that, you know, you're gonna go open the window, when, when it's hot out or something like that, you know, that the fourth is that that's amazing. Wow. So, you know, I find I find it almost funny to talk about all this authenticity, and then then switch into measurable KPIs on how do we how do we do that? Like, are you able to, yes, to track this? I'd love to hear that. Because for me, I'm like, Oh, that's a hard thing to do. Because it's a soft skill and things like that.

Daniel Viduya  11:22

Well, I could tell you this, yeah, we're talking about behavior comes down to customer experiences. We're talking about behavior here, the way you behave, the way you conduct yourself, the way you want people to treat you based on how you behave is also measurable in KPI. And I think that for those of you who have you are listening out there, I encourage you for you to read the ultimate question to play No.

Jeff  11:47

This is notes. Yeah, ultimately, I

Daniel Viduya  11:49

Fred Reichheld. It's a wonderful book. That book tells you the measurable KPI on great customer service, because it's also a behavior that is, in my opinion. And so you know, some may disagree. Some might agree. But then I like to not say that I'm always correct. I'd like to humble myself. In my

Jeff  12:10

firewall, in my opinion,

Daniel Viduya  12:12

it is NPS the Net Promoter Score. Why is that? So? Net Promoter Score is also based on behavior. When you treat your customers, right, when you treat them, well, when you treat them, just the when you treat them with what is do for them and what is right. They behave and respond the same exact way, which is the likelihood of them referring your brand or promoting your brand, to people that they know. Yeah, it's it's a wonderful KPI because it really measures their behavior. And it talks about the authenticity of how you treated them. A classic example would be Charles Schwab, Charles Schwab, when he launched his, you know, it was his back in his financial institution, back then, he was very caring for their customers, you know, they were caring for their customers, till they drew and the Boond. And all of a sudden you see all these charges. And these things and customers started complaining customers started training customers or closing their accounts, and Charles Schwab himself. At the time, I think he was the he was already like a senior member. And I think his son was the President or the Vice President. He called his son by his complete name, and his son never heard that from his father before, and said, Son, we have a problem that our customers are not happy. We're not treating them the way that we're supposed to be treating them. And so they made it a point to change that impression, to make a change that was right for their customers, so that they could bring in and reopen that NPS that was mentioned in the ultimate question 2.0. And same with blockbuster versus Netflix, when blockbuster decided to not keep up with the times and charge customers with exorbitant fees for snowflakes, where it's like, look, we would give you a video streaming service that is simple to use simple charge and you wouldn't be happy with it. What would happen to Blockbuster now, you know, what NPS This is what NPS talks about when when your customers behave in a specific way with the way you treat it, we treat them. That's the measurable KPI right there that tells you how your business is going to thrive and survive this economy.

Jeff  14:11

No, absolutely. And I will tell you, as we know, people throw a lot of shade at MPs these days. But you did I don't, I don't because my normal stance on that is like I'm just going to drag and something right, like so. But for this argument, you are 100% Correct. It is, is the service so good that people would refer you in that's the original reason why it was created. I used to have to deal with it back in the.com ecommerce days and it was like, Hey, would you refer people to use this website and if you're down then you're like, we gotta get over it. And then and then you know, everybody moved to CSAT and everything but it's, if you're going to recommend somebody that's that's, you know, you're gonna you're gonna say I can guarantee you're going to enjoy this experience.

Daniel Viduya  14:57

Yeah, and you know, sometimes people think I'm negatively about NPS because it seems like you're asking your Pete your customers to do you know, to refer people over. But the truth is you don't have to the purpose of NPS is just to measure that behavior. It's not about telling your, what's your vibe, it's what you feel. And it's what you that tells you what their lifetime value is going to be, it's going to tell you what the retention is going to look like. Because at the end of the day, businesses business, you have to talk about that, too. You know, and, you know, many people throw shade about that, but that's okay. But remember, people shade is meant for lounging, not for throwing.

Jeff  15:37

So many YouTube shorts are gonna make out of these is amazing. To see my video person just slicing them all up right now. So we're talking about standard of care and going through things like that. But then when we were chatting the first time, you said when we started on this topic that I can't think of a good transition, but I just kind of blew my mind, which was this whole, you were talking about the KPIs and the authentic experience, and then suddenly, we're talking about failed payment recovery? And how they

Daniel Viduya  16:08

Oh, yes, yeah. So matory is because the other term for field payment recovery back then was collection, collect people love

Jeff  16:16

that AP my account,

Daniel Viduya  16:20

accounts payable, recovery, underwriting, skip tracing, I was there before the good one, right, and people someone there, it's crazy. What has failed payment recovery, failed payment recovery is simply another term for collections, but in a more friendly and just manner, instead of counting people to give you their credit card or checking information or check, you know, why don't you kindly tap into them? And, you know, ask what the situation is. Because that's a completely different story right here. When we talk about a subscription, when we say you have a store, where you every month supply razors, or shaving creams or your beauty products, many times some of your customers forget to update their card, some of them change their card, you know, I mean, identity theft in the United States is still prevalent. And so sometimes they have to replace your card. Last week, my friend was just charged for $2 on her chase card for a transaction in Canada. We don't know what it was, but you know, she had a blogger card immediately. Or simply because some people have forgotten to load their card with fonts. And so sometimes the pain, the payment would feel, what is the best way to follow up with these people? Well, let me ask you this, Jeff, maybe you would even notice this. What do you feel like about receiving an email saying that your payment has failed, but it's from an automated email, you know, like Netflix award from Amazon, and you really take notice,

Jeff  17:50

I think it's spam. And I just say if exactly if it's really serious, it's gonna come back and my, my service is gonna get shut down. So yeah, exactly. You're, you've a little bit more what is it? Like that? I will admit, but yeah,

Daniel Viduya  18:03

that's okay. Though. We're not judges. I'm also great procrastinator, myself, I shopped for my personal items from the Philippines on the very last day before my flight. Well, that was a good experience people. Anyway, you see, that's that you tend to ignore the email, or you tend to think it's spam, because again, it couldn't look like it's spam. Um, but what if it's this, I personally send you a note saying, Jeff, Hey, my name is Daniel, I'm from Netflix. I'm your personal account manager just wanted to check in with you because I noticed that ID card did not go through Netflix, would you probably pay attention to that email?

Jeff  18:36

Yes. Is the element of personal communication versus automated makes my attention? perkupp?

Daniel Viduya  18:45

Exactly. Right. That's the thing would feel payment recovery. You don't have to have people through an automated email. You also don't have to be unkind when you follow up with him, saying, hey, look, I noticed that your credit card didn't go through or credit card has expired. Would you like to go in and replace that? By doing failed payment recovery, you're able to follow through with those customers that normally churn because they did not just know, you know, it's simply because they didn't know or they procrastinated, you get to increase your lifetime value there but at the same time, feel pain recovery also opens another realm of addressing any customer concerns that are that that exist. Like sometimes they say oh yeah, I do remember that. I just really didn't enjoy the product. It seems like I counted this, this and this. Yeah. Then you could give them a white glove service that you didn't expect you'd be giving them yeah, you know, sometimes customer service nowadays it's it's really reactive. It's more on the side of where I'm Yeah, sure. We'll respond to you if you have any problems. But what about if you treat them like VIPs? Wouldn't they be happier customers? I get that a lot with the 10 T here in Mexico. I have a 10 T here. And there's another competitor called tell sell and Mo Vista are in both movie star and tell sell we're okay. I must say they're cheaper than a TNT TNT is more expensive. But the thing about a TNT that drew me to them was the level of service that they gave to me. So we that they would follow up with me after I made an order, they would tell say, Hey, are you okay with your plan? Is there anything we could help you with? Are you happy with the service? I got that white glove treatment from them versus tell seller Melfi store. And that's why seeing with a TNT even if they're more expensive, right?

Jeff  20:26

No, that's it's a huge thing, right? There is also from a company that large, like they don't have to do that. Right. And I don't think I get that from Verizon, who I go through as well, too. And I just had to get a new phone because my last one was dying. And yeah, it was very transactional, very transactional, right.

Daniel Viduya  20:43

So it's, sometimes it's about those things. So small things about following through. And I used to be a contractor for 18 T in the United States. I personally made it my commitment that if I told the customer that I'll be following through with them, if they had a problem, I will follow through with them. And so I would I would ask for a special time from our workforce. 60 Just give me five minutes, I need to call this customer make sure they're okay. And that's what I did. Yeah, you know, it's it's about following through with them and just making make making them feel like we do care for them that they are a VIP. Because at the end of the day, our customers are our true VIPs in our in our business, we cannot exist without them. So if

Jeff  21:23

you any type of tearing with within your company of like, these people are VIP, but these people are always everybody VIP that signs up

Daniel Viduya  21:31

to me everybody was a VIP, if you need extra attention, if you need extra help, I will give you that follow up call, I wanted to make sure everything is okay. You know it's not about because they're high paying customers with their VIP, it's never that when they need help. And when you need to follow through with them, you keep the commitment you follow through with them. And if it's not just a TN T, like provide us like T Mobile as well, they actually have a follow through system, when you put a follow through in their account, you have to follow up. It's it's a commitment that they take very seriously to.

Jeff  22:03

I wonder if they had a lot of churn and they found that's one area where they can help out. And if they did that, then it's gonna get turned around, or they just felt great. And they wanted to do it. I don't know. Yeah, well,

Daniel Viduya  22:13

I think that it is something that they were very committed to, in my opinion. People may have, yeah, I like to look at the good side of things. That's great. So

Jeff  22:25

um, this has been great. I never really get this perspective and everything. I really appreciate you jumping on and talking about, just tell everybody a little bit of what you're doing right now. First port zebra and everything.

Daniel Viduya  22:37

Yeah, support Zebra is a company that helps people scale their customer service teams is basically what it is. We help you grow your customer service team. When you have problems scaling. When you have problems with performance, when you have problems with recruitment, we do that for you, we take care of that piece for you. Because not only do you get a dedicated customer service team, you get an infrastructure behind the scenes that helps you manage and maintain the customer service team. That's what supports Eva does. If you have any questions about what your customer service needs, about what your customer service should be implementing, about what your team should be implementing in terms of performance management, feel free to reach out to me, I'm not really going to sell you anything hardcore unless you permit me to do so. But you know, no, the point is, I want to live conversation with the interest share best practices. So whether it is you're interested to learn more about support Sierra, or you're just interested in learn more about best practices, I'm here to be a mentor. I could also be be here to I'm also here to be a persistent sales rep. So pick one of the two or pick both. It's up to you.

Jeff  23:37

That's me. So I haven't asked you what were people are doing for their, you know, for like their winter activities. But I think your travel is much more fascinating. So I'd love to hear like what your next month's worth of travel is right now.

Daniel Viduya  23:50

Yes. So I will be going to Columbia this coming summer which is to dance some I'm going to add some Columbia and just enjoy the food. They're down in Colombia and then after mid summer going into after summer going into autumn I will be in San Diego in Dallas, Texas. Enjoy myself some barbecue. So the good barbecue with my brother. And then going into the winter season I will be flying back to New York because New York is still my number one love. I'll be in Chelsea. Yes, I just want to travel around and kind of

Jeff  24:22

hang out. That's that's how it makes sure I stay in Chelsea when I'm in New York. Right? So it's just

Daniel Viduya  24:27

Yes. Get up a pie a hot dog while you're in Chelsea. Definitely.

Jeff  24:31

First Yeah. You know, the Seinfeld was like a huge, huge fan. So absolutely. There you go.

Daniel Viduya  24:39

Great. Well, Jeff, if you need anything else, you know where to find me. People can also find me on LinkedIn. My name is Daniel for do you. But thank you so much for having me. Jeff, do you have any anything else you wanted to cover?

Jeff  24:50

I think that's amazing. As I said we're trying to keep these just laser focused and everything and this has been awesome. You've been funny. I'll make sure to grab your LinkedIn and Put any links that we need to do in the show notes and everything just hold on for one quick second we'll stop the recording and we'll chitchat for all for a second or two

Daniel Viduya  25:06

okay perfect thank you Jeff thanks for time