Building a successful startup implementation organization with Bradley Jones, VP of Implementation at Indeavor
Jeff is joined by Bradley Jones, who is the VP of Implementation at Indeavor. Brad is the first person that I have met with this title, and we had a lot of ground to cover. A list of the topics discussed are:
- Applying the learnings of a Big 4 consulting background to startups
- Implementing a Minimum Viable Process vs the over-processization that happens with large consulting companies
- Becoming a vital asset of the B2B and B2B2C presales process and helping to close enterprise deals
- Balancing flexibility and standard processes with large customer and customer demands
- Building Custom features in a SaaS world
- Timing the Onboarding Phase to make sure proper transitions between a prospect’s previous vendor
Listen to the podcast here
Transcript:
Jeff 01:14
Hey there, it's Jeff, thanks for clicking play on the podcast. Always appreciate it. I wanted to chat quickly about Brad who's who's the guest on the podcast. As I say in the podcast, I'm super psyched because Brad reached out to me. And I saw that his title was VP of implementation. And then I was like, Oh, my God, it's new. It's the chosen one. Finally, I've seen that as a title. And so I was super excited. Brad super well spoken, very smart. Gonna go lots of places, I'm sure. And he came from a big poor background, and then took a role with endeavor, which does pretty complicated human resource management and workforce management software. So his team is behind that. And he's just really approached things in all the right way he reached out to me and, you know, we get together every once in a while and chat over some of the best practices and everything. And to be honest, he's given me some ideas for some of my blog posts, because I was like, Oh, that's a good blog post. Let me write that up. So definitely huge credits for that. Quick thing, I got a bunch of podcasts lined up, I actually have been bad on the production side of things, we're getting them actually released and putting the picture in the little all that little stuff. So kind of some time over the holidays, and try and get these out over a once a week or as quick as I get them in. And I would not say that except for the last two people I've talked to found the podcast and they had found it via LinkedIn and things like that. So I said, I don't want to sound like Joe Rogan or anybody like that. But if you do have the chance to go into iTunes, and give a review, even if you think I'm you know, full of you know what, that would be great. And the only reason why I say that in this podcast is I would love to reach out to more people like Brad and if they're in iTunes, or a podcast app, and they're searching for professional services, or implementation or things like that, that this comes up. And I know that they use reviews to feed the search results. I think as I've mentioned a couple of times before, I'll never monetize this podcast, it's truly a labor of love and by the people for the people. But we'd love to keep getting out to more and more people doing really well in that regards. And just want to keep that train up. So hope you enjoyed the podcast. And I'll be back in a little bit with another one. And we are recording. And so people who've listened to the last couple of podcasts are so I've got the it's funny tally going for my transitional statements. So we don't need to put those snarky comments on the LinkedIn post. Like I understand I say that a lot. The interesting point, though, is that when I brought it up to Brad, I see I just had to stop myself. Right, there you go. Brad said he uses that term a lot as well. So we have these thoughts in our heads about how we do our go about our work. And then we hear somebody agree with us and we're like, that's kind of funny. So, So Brad, introduce yourself. We've known each other this year actually, it's it's it's an interesting thing because you're not in my direct network of people that I've worked with, which is awesome because, you know, I just like hearing from other people and I think he reached out to me right? He just suddenly somebody my 40 How did that all happen?
Bradley Jones 04:55
So I was a listener of the podcast. So I am a I've listened to many GSD podcasts while on runs, and I'll say it's an interesting dynamic, right? Because this is the this is the work I do, I kind of I kind of sought this, this this forum out is kind of a for the People By the People take communication, right. And, and what's interesting is I almost primarily listen to podcasts either in the car or, you know, on a run, neither of which are great places to like, take notes. But but this is, you know, when you talk with people, or when you listen to podcasts like this, you you kind of have to so many runs, listening to you, as well as kind of many stops taking some notes on my cell phone. But But yeah, in my new my new role, which I say new, it's been six months, which which feels more like six years, you know, just a lot of the a lot of the topics that that I listened to with you and your network very much resonated. So reached out you were very gracious, and we've kind of maintain this
Jeff 05:57
back and forth. That's awesome. When I started the podcast, it was you were the core listener, right, which I had to I had to think about because it got me through a lot of impostor syndrome while because I'm like, some of the people I've talked to, like, Andrew Fang, and like, Scott, Raha you guys, they're better than I am. They'd be like, Why are you interviewing me? Like, so? I was going through this thing, or like, Oh, here's Kushner with another one of his war stories again, so, so but the idea was that listen, it's total, as I say, like blue collar farmer, like total blue collar, like talking shop. We don't really do the autobiographical, like, and I did this, and there's this thing that I did, unless it really helps out the conversation. But this should it's part therapy part, like, how did you fix this problem like, this is evolving in unlike customer success, and some other things that are out there, there's not a massive, you know, community around this. And there's no, that'll, my hope is to find more people like you and get them on and talking and get outside my network. So you know, I don't make a dime off it. I'm not ever going to put an ad placement in or pimper product or anything like that. It's truly just to find more people like us, because we're a little underrepresented. You know, it used to be professional services. But now it's kind of this is a great segue into what you're doing. Now, it's splintered off over the last few years, into professional services being implementation for a lot of sass companies. And so you reached out. Try not to use the inappropriate terms here. But I was like, He's the one he's the first one. Here's, you know, he's he's, he's the first one where it's been recognized as you are a functional leader of implementation, not like, oh, we have this implementation component over here. And we're gonna give it to some manager like you are, yes, leading a functional group called implementation. So give us how you got there. And and what you're doing now and I'm, you know, we got the we can get a bunch of things we can get
Bradley Jones 07:59
into after Yeah, absolutely. So how I got there through it was through most recently, kind of the formal professional services route. So involved in in consulting for for one of the big four, spent a lot of time kind of learning some of the ins and outs and the procedures both of within our industry in the specific verticals that I serve now at endeavor but, but also, from a from kind of a ways of working perspective, prior to prior to consulting, I did spend some time in manufacturing and a major automotive, OEM and all of those kinds of transitions to a point where I was looking for an opportunity in organic opportunity primarily for growth with specifically within SAS and with it with a growth company. Fortunately, the, the the role itself, as well as the relationships that kind of I had, mainly throughout the previously worked out with, with endeavour, I'll tell you a little bit more about endeavour, but about the role itself, I can't take any credit for the role, I have to give the entire role. The entire credit to my boss, our CEO, Brandon shores. First of all, you know, kind of unbelievable from an operational perspective, a vision perspective, but but a very unique kind of combination of the fact that he's he's essentially grown up in in this company, okay, but has also but also has the vision required to take us where we need to be right, so he knows what our customer needs at the granular level, he knows what our organization needs at the granular level. And he presented this position to me as as VP of implementation, and I had kind of the same same feedback, right. So what what exactly is this? What's the what's the engagement and, you know, basically, the way we look at it the way he looked at it now and the way that I kind of now drive and mold and shape the rest of the organization is, look, we serve a highly complex environment that really layers deep adaption at the process level. And as a point solution, we need to seamlessly integrate and be adopted by a broader ecosystem of applications as well. So, you know, it's in order to do that, you know, certainly you need to the technical nature and we have a fantastic product that's that's maturing daily, right? And then what but certainly the functional nature as well, and and how do we meld those two? It's, it's specific and Paramount focus on implementation. And so, so all credit to the boss was a new role when it was when I joined. And so yeah, that was that was that was all him.
Jeff 10:37
That's amazing in you know, that was one of my questions. I was like, Was it your idea? Like, yeah, I'll take that gig, but it's going to be the VP of implementation. Like, that's all?
Bradley Jones 10:46
It was. Yeah, it was. And so, I mean, I think that what's important, though, is, okay, so what, where do we go from here? Right? And I don't know, we don't we don't know what that looks like, we talked about what that looks like. But, you know, certainly, we need to make sure that implementation is considered in the broader customer journey, and it fits in well, not over, you know, both from, you know, leads to pre sales to the actual implementation. And then And then beyond. But, but securing that kind of robust foundation is critical first. And, you know, I don't want to give up, I don't want to discredit, you know, the fantastic team that I have, for me, right, we're doing some fantastic services work, right, we're doing some great consultative work. But the core of our core of our function is to be the plumbing from that sales to esteem and, and get people up to speed and highly configured and provide value quickly.
Jeff 11:37
100%. And I know, so we talk, you know, a few every few weeks and everything. And so I know that you're always crediting the team and all that stuff. Give me a quick favor for the people who don't know, SAS b2b, like, what's your what's your current, like, you get called into doing implementation? What is your stance?
Bradley Jones 11:58
Like? SAS b2b, we serve three primary markets, manufacturing, and within manufacturing, food processing is really kind of our major growth engine right now. But we serve both discrete process manufacturing. And that's, that's kind of our biggest, our biggest customer base, we also serve government and energy and utilities. So we are a workforce management solution that provides essentially labor optimization visibility and employee engagement for complex enterprises. So if you are a shift based organization with highly paid individuals, and complex rules, ie unions, or fatigue rules, whatever it might be, we provide us the information, the visibility, and ultimately kind of the optimization, employee engagement, while integrating with your broader workforce management application ecosystem, so you know, not only will you be able to, you know, identify and optimize your labor pool, but you also have that streamline within, you know, your, your, your broader systems, that, that that workforce management areas. So that's, that's what we do in, you know, ultimately, you know, our customers, specifically, what my team and our team is focusing on is specific is, especially in the manufacturing world specific facilities specific enterprise, you know, folks that, that providing both value at the global level, the regional level, and then the local level, at the at the factory employee level, to, to those to those areas, that's great,
Jeff 13:35
it's super important. I can empathize with you in some areas, because one of my customers is HCM solution, and a lot of the factoring. So I hear like, unions and California laws and all that stuff, I just know, it gets complex. And it's nice to be working on important stuff, right? Like, sometimes my friends are looking around, and they're talking about, oh, I'm interviewing here, they're like, go with the one that saves people money, and that becomes a valuable part of how they run.
Bradley Jones 14:06
Yeah, absolutely. And, you know, that's the, that's the great part about a company or their solution, like endeavor is, you know, we're serving both needs, we're serving the business needs and the enterprise needs. And that's, that's, that's obviously who many cases is writing the check. But we're genuinely improving the employee experience as well. Right. So we have that impact at all levels. What that does for us, from a business perspective is it makes us sticky, which, which again, very much like and, but but but it also it presents a challenge going back to implementation is, you know, how do you serve the needs of both a customer who is who is an employee, but also the needs of a CTO or,
Jeff 14:46
you know, it's, I we typically call this the b2b to see problem, right? Like you're selling b2b, but then you're essentially turning it into a consumer play with their end users after that. Yep, absolutely. Absolutely. So listen, one of the things I wanted to talk about, I just tossed it into the agenda because I remember, when you first started, you were coming from big four. And it was a kind of a big switch for you to go from Big Four to the startup world, and then implementing what I call a minimum viable process and things like that. Want to get into a little bit and sort of how that's been going along? Over the last few months?
Bradley Jones 15:23
Yeah, so so you get an answer a different answer from me, and you'd get a different answer than you would from my wife right now, I'd say probably, but it's been, it's been awesome. The only kick
Jeff 15:35
the dog once a day now.
Bradley Jones 15:39
It's been fantastic. So first and foremost, it's, it's what I was seeking. In fact, you know, before joining the consulting route, I really did join it with the idea that, hey, I want to I want to be ultimately, you know, grow the skills, build the skills, the diverse kind of, you know, vertical experience to be able to provide value in kind of a growth company. So, from that perspective, I'm a bit of a glutton for punishment that I've always been seeking this out. Now the difference is for, for those of the people are listening, or who will, you know, listen or know, me, between big four, and the startup couldn't be more different, right? First and foremost, I always say the joke. You know, again, fantastic team, we have, we have a we have a lot of work to be done. But you know, it's been a long time since I've, since I've put fingers to keys on an SOP right, standard operating procedure for a customer. I think within the first the first or second week, there was, hey, we need to get some out the door. You know, nobody else has the bandwidth to do it. Friday night, seven o'clock. All right, let's roll Give it to me. Right. Yeah. You know, whereas, whereas before, there's, you know, you have you have countless, countless opportunities, I think, you know, there's a lot of benefits, pros and cons as it relates to the process, right? I do, I do feel like, you know, the over procedure realization, sometimes in Big Four, hampers you and ultimately makes you less cost competitive outside of a few very specific markets. Whereas here, our ability to deliver in an agile manner is is is really completed day and night to that for that experience.
Jeff 17:20
So, quick, quick thing on that, because, so, don't feel too bad when you start with the overall process. Yes, here's my perspective on this. Yeah. Um, it's, so I'll go back to me, and my kids always watch Survivor and stuff like that, like, you have these people who never, you know, lived outside and stuff like that, and never were in the rain. And then after 40 days, like they could do anything, right. And so I kind of view it like that, like, if you could get exposed to all that process. And you're able to take that and then adapt it to what you really need, I think you have a huge leg up with my little asterix saying, you have to be of the personality type that can roll with it. Because some people they can't like they just their circuits over get overwhelmed, because I understand I've got this Gantt chart and this move three days. So I got to shift it forward. And I'm like, Whoa, like, do you want that. So we want to get this customer live, you don't want to piss them off with change orders in the SAS world and stuff like that. So some people can flex up, because I'll also say that you are dealing with selling into larger organizations that will say, Hey, listen, I'm guessing total guests here, they're gonna say, Hey, before we sign up with you, we're going to have you talk with our PMO organization or something like that. And you need to be able to talk about that and show off examples. And the Agile people can't really do that. So. So that's my thoughts on that whole thing, like you need you need that experience to be able to, you know, have that foundation that you then craft to be able to
Bradley Jones 18:54
take it Yeah, that's a that's a great way to put it in. And I won't say that I found the balance exactly perfect yet, I think I probably am too much. And my team would probably would probably agree i i swayed too much one way towards, hey, we need to process the shit out of this to back to hey, let's just let's just figure this out, get over the finish line. But I will say every day, we're getting a little bit closer to kind of an ambient level. But But I I do think that, you know, here at endeavor where we were at a point where a little bit more of the, the process, the the procedure realization was, was needed. And so now now, as we swing back towards kind of left to center here, will, will be will be in good shape. But what's your point on the PMO? That's been my last my last two weeks with with with one of our one of our largest customers is as we engage with with the global implementation to you know, hundreds, hopefully hundreds of facilities. You know, they they want to see how this is, you know, this is the way that we do things. This is the way that you will be doing things and then you know, we need to be able to have kind of very fluid and relevant Conversations, you know, back and forth with them as well. So I couldn't agree more.
Jeff 20:03
So on that note, are you at that point yet where you feel that you could say like, here's our standard process, right? Like we do the same 1215 50. For me, they're usually in the 65 range don't like do, this is our plan. This is how we do it. Here's the list of tasks that we always do. Every customer gets this so we can start. We standardizing on this, and then maybe we add 20 through for our customers or something like that.
Bradley Jones 20:30
Yeah, absolutely. I would say, in fact, it's funny, we have a we have a two hour happy hour session to make improvements on that standard process this afternoon, right? So I would say we did that was that was like, you know, when I came in, I had I didn't come in with a playbook like it that I that I expressed to everybody. But I had an internal playbook and internal kind of structure that I was working towards. And to me, that was that was step one is to be a first of all, I should say step one was to learn the team, learn the environment, learn, learn our customers, and learn what we do our product, etc. But But But step two in the videos, one B was to define that that structure, and I don't want to I don't want to lose any credit to the work, the great work that had done before I joined, there was a solid structure in place, I just think we probably had a solid structure in place with about 20 of those variables. And now it's closer to that 50 to 60 task task base range of which it's going to always improve, I always butcher this, this comment, or this this quote from the CEO of mule soft that says, you know, if if if a process or a procedure doesn't, you know, sound right or standard doesn't seem right, it's probably not because there's probably made for for when your organization was 40 people or 50 people. And now that, you know, for us, we're, you know, 80 plus and growing as we roll, we wouldn't expect those. And so I think, you know, standardize or stabilize and improve is something I kind of learned back in my back in my lean manufacturing days. And it's something that we have to take on here to the to the delivery process as well. Oh, 100%.
Jeff 22:02
And I wound up seeing some places you're gonna have like two or three standard prices, here's our small medium process. Here's our big ask customer process. Here's the absolutely, but where are you just you're just tweaking it and going along the way and making the changes and seeing what works. So I didn't drop the fact that you're you're kind of in this this pre sales thing, and you're doing some some work with like a prospect and which is awesome, because you know, my perspective is implementation needs to get in there versus the you just got handed over a contract and says, Where are you? Are you have you been able to successfully interject the implementation team into the pre sales process so that a certain alarm goes off at a certain stage and you get called in so the bad stuff doesn't happen?
Bradley Jones 22:52
Yeah, so So to be, to be fair, the process that we're actually this is one of the wins for the year that maybe we'll maybe we'll get to here. But we've actually successfully completed the pre sale process and getting ready to get going with this with the customer I had mentioned. So we're all incredibly excited about that. And some ramp up associated, as it relates to pre sales. I'm heavily involved in specifically and in my team, who, who all of which are much smarter as it relates to workforce management HCM environment, as well as our product are also heavily involved, I think we have, so we have the right injection points, what we're working towards, and what we'll we'll work towards a little bit deeper is, you know, kind of structuring that process such that we get the right information. And as we become more mature, I think as a, as a company, our injections will be maybe a little bit more considered in that process as well, if you will. So, right, right now we're in this weird juxtaposition where, you know, we can provide value to all of our customers with with the configurability of our product now, how does that impact, you know, timelines, how does that impact, you know, performance, whatever it might be, that's where, you know, I think we have a little bit of opportunity to say, you know, in this in this pre sales process, you know, let's consider this XY and Z from a timeline cost perspective. But I think we're, we're doing at the very least a good enough job right now. And we just have to grow those processes with with our growth in our maturity as well. So I know I know that's a topic that I've talked about and you write about
Jeff 24:36
is sales is on board right? So sales is on board like they don't think you're slowing the deal down by getting in like they find you as a necessary piece.
Bradley Jones 24:44
I think they I think they do in from from from the sense that right now and this is the uniqueness of our of our product. It's actually a our team right now, and it's actually a strong benefit. You know, we essentially play that sales engineer role our implementation team in many cases, so so they absolutely see us now it's funny. There's a fine line, right? And it'd be interesting to see if any of the sales folks listen to this. There's a fine line where it's, Hey, we need you. And then it's okay. Be gone. Right. But, but but as long as we keep pushing that line that this is where I go back to keep, because as long as you keep pushing that line with what kind of arbitrary process, I'm comfortable with that, but the engagement is there right now,
Jeff 25:21
I think they'll, if history serves me correct here, I think what will wind up happening is, and I've interviewed customers post sales on these things, they find that they were able to pair up with the implementation resource more than the salesperson more than the sales engineer, because they're like, hey, you know, these people came in, they're non commissioned, all they're doing is working with customers, they know the software better than anybody. They know, the use cases. Like my standard, you know, vague, wide sweeping statement is, you know, sales and sales engineers, they know the 30 things in the grid that the product does, and absolutely no, and your competitor does 28 of them, and you need 32 of them. So we're gonna bring the implementation team, you know, it gets to that point where you're, they're gonna ask, the customer is gonna say, the prospect is gonna say, Hey, can you bring Brad back in? And you might be like, oh, I need to bring Sally back into because she's my solution architect or whatever. But they're gonna be like, Yeah, cuz we just want to hear like, the real stuff. Like we get it. Like, we want to see how it happens. And then, and, you know, apologies, because I feel like I've preached this so much, but it's the sales teams like, wow, they're, they're helping close these deals. And then you might be able to, especially with like, the formalization of the PMOS, and stuff like that, like how it's worth this out in real time. What's the standard sales length? Like? Is it a six month sale? A nine month sale? A three month sale? Like, average sale line?
Bradley Jones 26:55
Yeah, I would say there's closer to the six, nine month sale, we're really focused on that, that enterprise and sometimes longer than
Jeff 27:02
that, so here's the get in there, and they might be rolling over from a different system, right? So you get into these things, where it's like, well, our other software and, you know, we're gonna not resign with our other vendor that ends 1231. Because that's when everybody's systems and in this industry, and we need you to be up and running and going from this, but you would work that back like, well, if you want to remove from right from there, but you're saying it without the commission aspects, like, so that means we need to be live and implemented and ready by, well, maybe before Thanksgiving or something like that. So suddenly, you're accelerating the deal to move forward? Because what, you know, if you're, if the sales team's like, oh, well, we've got eight months to close this, you know, I know, we actually got to kind of get, you know, in there now and start working on this. They're gonna like, oh, yeah, thanks so much for bringing that to our attention instead of the worst case scenario for them, which is paying for both vendors. Because we know that occasionally happens when our things get delayed. And then all you hear is like, I'm paying for two systems right now. And you guys suck in all that stuff. So
Bradley Jones 28:10
yeah, absolutely. I would say we have, you know, our team here we have some people that really, really are differentiators in that process, their leverage, it's, it's another, it's another balance, right? Because, you know, sometimes sometimes you have to balance like, okay, the ability for these key resources to actually deliver, and then to close, but yeah, I think we're in a good, we're really in a good place right now with it. But obviously, we all know, just like everything as we grow, it needs to be there needs to be better. But I completely agree with you that non commissioned and that real aspect of it. I mean, in our world, when we're talking, you know, at the employee level, the plant manager level, you know, people that understand and have worked in that for years. That's critical. And that's the type of people we have on my team.
Jeff 29:00
That's great. We already went over your biggest win. So the other thing I'm like, was there anything that you thought, hey, I'm gonna get in there, I'm going to do X, and you just totally fell flat on your face on and I could talk about this all day.
Bradley Jones 29:11
So that was definitely the biggest win the I would say there's two real Okay, so there's one fall flat on my face on I would say, and it wasn't quite a fall flat on my face, but we're working through it. So you know, this is a brad coming in with the with this very kind of structured background and, okay, we're going to implement OKRs you know, day to day one, and we've made some tremendous strides on on operational engagement all call and structures with within our team is primarily focused and driven by a by a world of remote remote work and working rolling COVID. So, you know, we I joined essentially right on the at the inception of our office closing. We have a great fantastic work done by And it's one of our differentiators as a customer here in Madison, Wisconsin, or as an employee here in Madison, Wisconsin, which is a fantastic market for great talent. And we really had to differentiate, you know, okay, what we could have done by going to Sally's DESK using your example versus, you know, now utilizing slack and having at Slack notifications the hour. So we've made some good strides on on the operational components of that making feel people feel engaged, where we where we really have to work towards is our OKR practice process. And in my mind, it was so simple, it's so easy, we have the structures and, and then I and then, you know, I came from actually interesting, I didn't notice from before the world of coaching before I before I got involved in in corporate life, I I coached college football for a few years and saying there is yeah, you have a plan until you get punched in the mouth. Right. Exactly. And that's that's how I would describe my OKR plan and the nice, pretty charts and in review cadence that we had, not only from from a way that we drive it, but also from, you know, the what, what is the priority, you know, sometimes beginning of q4, radically can change for some people by the first month of q4. So that's that's somewhere that I'm really kind of putting some focus on some work on towards towards 21. So if any, anybody has any ideas, let me know, maybe we'll talk about the
Jeff 31:27
back end the man as KPIs into the OKRs. Like, yeah, me I'm not thankfully. Now, but oh, well, that's not exactly true. But But OKRs are tough to align when you're getting every everything through. It makes sense to me. But in the practical sense, it's kind of also where you are as an organization, when things shift and things like that, you know, having things for my team and being like, Hey, you're here, now you need to get to here. Yep, I'm a little bit more like that. Where it's, it's, you're trying to help them out with their career and the things that they need to do. And let's get out of the subjective manner and do some more objective type of things like that. But I don't want to bore the crap out of people on. So we went over the
Bradley Jones 32:14
the, I'll give you one more opportunity. Oh, sure. That I had, yeah. So because I do like to always, again, I think with with the team, and I like to personalize what we do. I'm a big believer in the idea of work life integration, you know, is not not as much on work life balance, right? Because I do think like, I'm doing this, I genuinely enjoy this, this makes me excited. And I, you know, all that. The the other I'm not going to call it a fail. But the other opportunity I've had is, you know, you talk about difference between big four consulting and startup is, is the balance in a non travel world from a woman perspective. And so that's something I'm absolutely still figuring out is, you know, so I moved my wife, a pregnant wife with a with a one and a half year old from, from from Indiana, to Madison, Wisconsin. And we're still still figuring out how do we how do we kind of how do I operate in such a way where, you know, we're growing the shit out of what we're doing here, because that's not going to stop. But also make sure that I'm given the right, you know, effort, energy and the right requirements at home. And what I've really learned throughout this, and this isn't a therapy session, but it's an important lesson for me, is, you know, I am much better when that family side is in a good place, right. But there's been times where I have lost that balance in these first, you know, six, eight months, that, that I've had to I've had to course correct. And it's been an incredible lesson for me as a as a new father, longtime husband, but new father, so yeah, that's another opportunity I have, and
Jeff 33:44
you have to you have to keep I remember, I did to hockey stick startup grows back to back over a 10 year period. And that started when I just been married, then we had kids and I just remembered my second daughter being like, Dad, why are you angry all the time? No, I wasn't angry all the time. Right? Focused face like you're at the dinner table. And you're thinking about your next meeting and all that stuff. And I was like, oh, man, and then yeah, it's it's a hard balance. So you know, and most people know what these are. It's a tough gig, like the whole services implementation. Like it's, it's real life. It's not the it's not the fun marketing and the fun sales. And you know, they all have their hard components to it. But it's, it's where the rubber meets the road and it's in. It's a hard thing. So absolutely. Do Yeah. So my note to you, and I believe we touch this on one of our mentoring sessions, where we just kind of shoot the show, which is it's probably knowing what your organization looks like you're planning on just to give some, some thoughts that we talked about is this is when you need to start building up the leadership of your functional areas because You're not going to be able to do everything and management or all these things, and work 5060 hours a week, it's, you might need somebody as a project management type leader, or a implementation lead tech lead, or maybe even somebody focusing more on sales and more on X, Y, and Z. In bringing those people along with you starting to bring one or more senior people in to just shadow on some of these sales team sales calls, and then give them a little speaking thing. And like, Hey, by the way, I can't make the next one. Can you jump in there? Oh, yeah, sure, you know, little things like that. Yep. Because otherwise, I've lived this life for so long, where the sales team when they start recognizing the value that you bring, you are essentially now a salesperson, and managing people. And you've got what, 20 people or so or I can't remember, yeah,
Bradley Jones 35:48
closer to read between 25 and 30. Now, and
Jeff 35:52
so you need to give your team attention and provide them leadership. And if you're doing all the sales work, and like, oh, you get the slack note like, hey, what you're doing right now I'm gonna call and oh, crap, I really need you to answer these questions. Like, yeah, it's you see, you're gonna,
Bradley Jones 36:07
you know that. So that's what I recommend to everybody at this point in time. Otherwise, your team is going to feel like they're not getting talked to, or yoga, I know you, you're good, solid, upstanding citizens. So you're going to try and spread yourself so thin, so you can make sure your employees feel like they're heard and everything. And so that's when you need to start kind of breaking it up into these these component teams. Yeah, it's a great, great, great topic, because you'll we've talked about in the past, and actually, just this week, I've announced kind of swarm some formalities and put put people in different positions where they can provide that, that increased level of oversight and focusing on two things, you know, and first and foremost, it's kind of a better employee experience here for us at endeavor because again, we really focus on that being a differentiator for us when we go to the market. But then the second piece is, is you know, also focusing on on customer quality. And I think, you know, now so we've established what I'll call kind of like a functional head leadership team, that kind of structures, everything from from architecture team, some of our some of our kind of core business analysis and delivery, as well as you know, some some leadership around program and project management. And my team now it's, it seems, it seems very, very unique. But my my direct reports, is now five. And it's interesting how like, how different that feels, then even even just like two or three days in right, then then the first few in I'll tell you that people that people need it, because they I mean, when even when I am when I am spending time, it's like, you know, it's more about what specific tasks and or other items, and then kind of the focus that's required. So yeah, completely, completely freed. And
Jeff 37:52
sometimes it's also like, Hey, listen, if you just want to vent, you can just vent and then you're like, 10 minutes later. And then hey, do you need me to take action on any of these things? No, no. Totally good. Because it literally one of the things about being, you know, have bosses or managers that you turn into an armchair psychiatrist, where people just kind of need to find out about everybody's, you know, when they're pregnant, even before they can announce it, like you find out all this. It's a lot to manage. So it's good that you're starting to do that. So let's do this. I know, we can talk for hours. So we're gonna do this. Part one. But so if I was in pre sales, if I'm the customer, prospect, and Brett Oh, how long does it usually take you to launch a customer? Once you do you have a standard answer that you can say,
Bradley Jones 38:38
Yeah, standard answer is, is about 16 weeks, we plan for around 16 weeks, and we try to drive that down. It will, it will vary. You know, the follow up answer to that is it varies based on, you know, what is your application ecosystem look like? What's the size your facility? What's the complexity, but, you know, we really drive the 12, kind of 16 week stand up, and we're really, really focusing on on kind of how do we how do we optimize that both from a customer experience as well as a, a, you know, a delivery perspective as well?
Jeff 39:11
That seems fast to me, are you doing integrations or they are the add to or that would add to the so so we
Bradley Jones 39:18
can do depending on the depending on the ecosystem that we're integrating with? We can do integrations within that 16 weeks. here's the here's the big cost. Right? So I didn't give you the but the thought is, yeah, the but is, you know, we need some significant employee engagement or I'm sorry, customer engagement throughout that 16 week lifecycle. And that's that's really where kind of that cusp of that conversation comes. But if we're doing complex integrations where we're actually having to do some development and some some shoot pure design, which in many cases, you know, we this is what we do, right we have a we're as a point solution, we integrate with with with You know, several key systems we have experienced integrating with those key systems. What really derail sometimes that timeline is some of the specific work rules associated with those. But no, our target is our target is 16. And I'm telling you, we can generally provide value by no short effort on on either end, within those 16 weeks, and then it's awesome. When I say 16 weeks, I really I really look at that kind of to kind of a go live state will always have some kind of hypercare. And some additional support required after that. But that's the goal. Our biggest I would say there's there's three kind of main contributors to Timeline shifts, what is what is your integration landscape look like? And how will? What are the complexity of that? Sometimes we won't know that until until we get into some some kind of work rules. Second, is employee engagement or customer engagement. So how much time can we get with with the experts?
Jeff 40:55
On that note? What are you charging? Are you charging your customer for implement? Yes, yes. Now you don't have to? Yes, like Yes. Yeah, that's one way I was just talking about previously. So it's like, yes. You know, if you're saying 16 weeks, we turn into pumpkins, then. Then yes, suddenly, you've got a lot more access to these people.
Bradley Jones 41:13
We are Yeah, we are charging them. And I'll be I'll be very, I'll be very open. And I'm a firm believer this, because I'm in this for the long haul your endeavors, you know, we are are my goal. And our goal is to get people on our product, right? We're not a services organization, we are we are a product company that provides value to our product. And then the third piece there is, is the cleanliness of data, I'll call it
Jeff 41:39
ETL, just, you know, just the thing that can grind, access to a halt is because everybody's got a clean data, right? So
Bradley Jones 41:49
yes, yes. And we're actually we're taking a different some of our enterprise customers are really taking kind of a different approach on how how we manage that in terms of getting some pure kind of upfront engagement and defining that into our timeline such that, yes, we're 16 weeks of engagement, or six, you know, four to four to five months of pure engagement. But here's the upfront work, and here's what we'd expect, et cetera, et cetera, before we before full, full engagement, but why say your people, you know, resources in the facility and engaging with customers prior to kind of the the hypercare really kind of try to focus on that 16 weeks? And then obviously, very often, we have both outliers on either. Yep,
Jeff 42:29
yep. Yep. Let's see here. See if there's a nice break now, point here. So we talked about the pre sales. So now, you actually know the answer to this one. But so now as you're heading into, so we're recording this, and middle of November, so prepping for end of year, and then beginning of 2021, what's your big focus right now?
Bradley Jones 42:55
Big Yeah, big, big, two big folks focuses, one I won't spend as much time on because it's, it's just part of who we are and what we do, but it's improving the shit out of our processes in a remote world. You know, what I think what we've learned and I would imagine others have learned is, you know, the, the ability to go into a customer setting, and have that engagement with them in person is just flat out easier. And when you have to do that, through scheduled meetings, and when you have to do that and define time windows, and you have to do that without offering to take them for a beer or dinner afterwards, it gets harder, it gets a little harder, right and exposes, it exposes the way you deliver. So, so really focusing on that. The second piece, and really, you know, the most important piece that my focus is on with the help of a lot of the team is, is finding really great people that are interested in growth and interested in what we're doing, not only in Madison, Wisconsin, but distributed across the US as well as globally. And we're gonna have some some hubs opening up here in, in different regions of the world as well as as we grow. But but the key there, Jeff, is, is people interested in growth. And and in, you know, that that has this, I don't want not 100 people that that kind of like have that same weirdness that I have around it, but but just people that understand, hey, this is where we're at, this is what we where we want to be and this is what it means. And that what it means I think, is the really critical component. Because to say, hey, I want to work for a growth company. That's one thing but but to be in it going back to the top of our discussion here, but to actually be in it completely different. So how do we find those people? How do we get them up to speed? How do we have them providing value really, really quickly? And how do we do it over and over and over again in different different corners of the world? That's that is my focus. That's our focus and exciting as hell.
Jeff 44:52
No, that's, that's awesome. Now almost a good place to drop off here. But I did want to ask one or two questions because it's been on my mind for my previous conversation. Yeah, what are what are especially now with COVID? And everything? What are in we can just do as in a short thing? What are the tools? Are you using as a team to work with your customers? Is it like a Google Drive thing? Is it between smart sheets? Yeah, we,
Bradley Jones 45:14
we primarily our main customer interaction point is Smartsheet, outside of the standard communication tool, so most of our most of our customers will on day one and B be engaging with with, with smart sheets from from an account perspective. And from there, we can track you know, project plan, customer expectations, open issues, we're converting and an F converted to utilizing it for our scorecards. And so as much as we can use in that collaborative environment better, there's other tools out there, I'm not going to be a not as an ad for Smartsheet. But, but we've found success with it. It's a tool that I adopted once I joined here, and I think it's certainly beneficial.
Jeff 45:54
We've also use the best one that you use the tool that makes the job but you know, if you only need 10 things to be done, you know, that's, that's it's quick spreadsheet, right? But you've got all these interdependencies and things like that, and you can't do number 15 Unless number seven's done, like Yeah, no. 100%
Bradley Jones 46:09
Yeah, absolutely. You know, we use we use, you know, so internally, obviously we separate but externally, we've we've really been kind of learning and finding value in teams as a collaboration. Oh, yeah. both internally and externally from
Jeff 46:23
there's a lot of people using it now. Yeah, absolutely. Well, awesome. So let's do this. And there's so much to talk about, we'll definitely do a part two in a few weeks or months. But what I have so I initially started this off as a as a music conversation, where I was like, Hey, would you listen to these days because the service that I use allows you to pull music and and however it turned into a huge thing. I don't want to switching it now into and I know you've got a little kids, but what has your COVID hobby been these days? Man? I'm just assuming you're baking bread and yeah, no, I
Bradley Jones 47:00
so so I would say two things. I have I have tried to pick up more reading. So trying to pick up some more books I've I've I've kind of like
Jeff 47:11
the can't be on process books. Brad. You can't change management.
Bradley Jones 47:16
Definitely not weirdly gotten into some like some stoic writing around kind of
Jeff 47:23
Ryan Holiday. But yeah, writing one a day thing is awesome. Yeah. It's just every day. It's like, oh, it's May 5. Yeah,
Bradley Jones 47:30
it's great. Yeah. So you can read it and then you have a three minute blurb with that. And then even some kind of like the classics are on stoicism I think only just apply. event had been fun. But then also just like, you know, stupid books, right? I tried to engage a couple of brothers, we're reading some books together and in but but then I really anytime that I'm not working, and I'm not, you know, I say reading I'm not giving, I'm giving myself way too much credit. I really am trying to, to spend more time with the toddler and the baby. So I had a two year old suit. And then I have a eight week old. So as much time as I can spend with them, especially when the when the phones away, is really what I do. And honestly what that looks like and this simplicity of this is the most beautiful thing, right? There's a hill, that's maybe a block away from my house that I can take my toddler to. And he can run up and down that hill, I'm telling you for like a half hour to an hour and come home take a nap. I mean, it's like that's the type of stuff that really COVID has been.
Jeff 48:32
I'm gonna be honest with you, because I had kids with that same age spread the to the toddler thing, and that's tough. Don't do it now. But in paying attention to that two year old, it means so much to them. Because otherwise, you know, then you start that, you know, the day that that baby was born was the worst day of the toddlers life and all that stuff if you don't do so. Well. That's amazing. So, such a good character, but I appreciate you and I appreciate our interactions and coming on and doing this here. So hold on one quick second. I'm gonna stop the recording. I'm going to get the details to put into the post and everything for you. And anybody that's listening. We'll talk to Brad again shortly. So here we go.
Bradley Jones 49:19
Let me just hold on a second. Thanks, Jeff.