GSD Podcast - Innovating Services and Guaranteeing Success with Luiz Figueira of Gympass

GSD is back from summer break with Luiz Figueira of Gympass. Luiz talks about how he has taken some of the lessons learned while at Boston Consulting Group and have applied them to Gympass. Luiz and team have some very innovative ways of ensuring success and satisfaction on every project that we get into, which has helped them scale fast and help utilize partners.

Transcript:

Jeff  01:14

And, we are good All right, so, thanks for the call this The Back to School version of the podcast had to take a few weeks off there with me traveling and people that I was scheduling to chat about some stuff. But in the meantime, while some of that was going on, one of the things that I had always wanted to have happen. Happen, which was just a person that I was not connected to just reached out to me and in professional services. And we just started chatting and thought it'd be great to have on the podcast, just just for everybody that's listening, if you hear any weird or different dynamic, it's it's this is the second version of this that we are recording. You know, sometimes you have to follow some brand guidelines. And and so there's some things that we might not get into exactly and on this one, but we're still have a ton of information. I really love Oh, he's in his team is doing algebra. So let me turn it over. Oh, introduce yourself and tell us a little bit how you got to where you are.

Luiz Figueira  02:26

Perfect, Jeff. Perfect. So thank you, it's a pleasure to be here. Before I talked about the beginning of professional services journey at Gympass, let me introduce myself and tell you a little bit about Gympass. So my whole background was built in IT industry. And at some point, I move it to a large consulting company, BCG, the Boston Consulting Group, where I acquire deep knowledge related to digital topics involving large IT transformations, product management, and so on. Then, after this challenging periods in consuming learning

Jeff  03:06

can be a grind. It's

Luiz Figueira  03:07

exactly. I think after these challenging periods, and linking all my previous IT background with new business perspective, I was invited to join Gympass. And when I heard about the purpose of Gympass that I was founded in 2012. And I understood the business model, my eyes were shining. So basically, Gympass is a three sided marketplace platform that is helping the world find an activity to live the fitting in activity. And we do that generating value to the three sides of our marketplace. First one is the HR from our clients that will offer an amazing benefit to their employees access a huge number of gyms and activities around the world, in strength, their wellness program. The second one that gyms, our partners, where we generate new revenue stream, and also we deliver other key benefits to them. And the third one, the end user that will find an activity to love. So the HR wins, the gene wins and the user wins a Karma free business as our CTO jocking toys often saves. Okay, that's awesome. But you know, like any other product company that is growing exponentially was not unusual to find partners and clients requesting focused on solutions. was making sense. However, the competing priorities between the regular work and customer requests is where the link port and product deliveries to our interface. Therefore, we decided to establish a professional services function to deliver these added value value customer requests to our partners and clients securing the product backlog

Jeff  05:00

where'd you find that? The majority of the customer requests were coming from out of that marketplace, which side of it was

Luiz Figueira  05:09

mainly from partners and clients. So basically, clients are the companies where we offer to the HR, the benefits. And the partners are basically the genes that we are partnering with to build our network.

Jeff  05:23

Yeah, absolutely. No, I can tell I believe that when I was at Virgin when I was a, are the people that we sold into were the HR teams as well. And we always needed to build some type of custom portal and you start did you have to do you have to deal with like the land of eligibility files and things like that?

Luiz Figueira  05:40

Exactly. So yeah, could be really fun, because because for the company side, there are two main dimensions, the eligibility management, and the payroll integration that are key for any any benefits provider. Right? And yes, you're totally right. So eligibility is one of the the main challenges that we face here.

Jeff  06:02

Yeah. But when I see what you do, and you see Jim path, but suddenly you're dealing with, like, exactly like social security numbers, and you're dealing with hardcore security, pastors and things like that, so yeah,

Luiz Figueira  06:18

exactly, exactly. And then there are two main dimensions, we can see professional services adding valuable value nowadays. The first one is the implementation of these tailored solutions to meet our partners and clients expectations. The second one that is really important is the offloading of Product Development, also providing them the required feedback from the fields to support the product evolution.

Jeff  06:45

Yeah, yeah. And as you know, and I brought it up, the last time we chatted, you know, I've very strong perspective, that the power user, of most SAS based or whatever, just just most, most product companies, is usually the professional services team, because they're using it, they're using the product the most, they're implementing it. And they need to know how everything works. And just if your professional services team is integrated in, they're able to pass back into the product and development teams, their findings and what people are asking for when you're doing these, these custom jobs, you can really have a big impact on a company's roadmap.

Luiz Figueira  07:32

Exactly, exactly. And, and it's really great that you are saying that because the operating model we established was focused on technical sales acting as the voice of customers, so partners and clients and in the customer requests to professional services, that will basically handle it with two main roles, the professional services manager and the technical leads. And also, once we assess the customer requirements, we engage with a vast partner ecosystem to deliver the solution, therefore, gaining scale, you know.

Jeff  08:10

Go ahead. Sorry, I'm into Gotcha. Yeah,

Luiz Figueira  08:11

I think another important point to mention is that we define the architecture boundaries to make sure we could work focused on customer requests, that would not impact our product card. As you know, it's really easy to get distracted by a ton of ideas, we found important to define these boundaries that are basically related to integration. So we work in a in a in API level to the lever, because some solutions.

Jeff  08:40

So it's interest. So I know you can't customize any of japanses code base. But Are there limitations to the types of customizations that you're allowed to, or the types of things that you're allowed to do and professional services, they're like, like, Whatever you do, don't build X, Y, and Z. I'm trying to think of an exact example. But I just remembered, like, when we're Umbraco, for example, there were certain things where they're like, Well, don't build your own ad server, right? Like, we don't want to have, you know, into, you know, get into something that's incredibly custom or too much of a competition to the product or anything like that.

Luiz Figueira  09:16

Yeah, exactly. So there's a kind of service packages we are building, seeing only integration only, and clients and partners, technical readiness, but to be really tangible here, let's suppose that a company wants we transformed the payroll format to their thesis, then, you know, so we do that. So and another example some fitness partner that are not able to integrate with first so we we integrate with them through our API's, our integration landscape, you know, so those are kind of, of the boundaries that we act on, you know,

Jeff  09:56

makes sense. Absolutely. So let's talk about About a little bit about the packages, I do think that this is something that can really help out a sales team in it empowers them because they, you know, sales, people don't traditionally like to bring cus professional services into the deal, they'll feel that it slows things down. Sometimes it can get super complicated, so they don't want to stumble upon it. And so if I recall from our last conversation, you had created some packages that the salespeople can easily speak to, and if they if they then need to get brought into the conversation, somebody like yourself can get brought in.

Luiz Figueira  10:37

Exactly, exactly. So what's really great that we've done before is that we establish a technical sales function at gene bass to make sure that all products technical aspects could be handled at at their level. So they basically enable the sales teams to to deliver our product to the market on a technical perspective. But furthermore, when we establish the professional service that's working really close to technical sales, we start to build this kind of service pack, you know, and to avoid problems, we make sure that we followed a straightforward, straightforward, go to market approach. And in the beginning of any custom project, we create a comprehensive statement of work encompassing a user and user acceptance test strategy, that is, in terms of the development of what is required, and calibrate all stakeholders expectations. So if we are talking about doing an integration with a payroll system, we have this this comprehensive go to market approach since the beginning of the engagement to the delivery of the solution, you know, and it's lacking dissatisfaction from our clients and partners,

Jeff  11:50

can you go a little bit more into the in the first time we talked about as jumping up and down, because this was just It blew me away how you guys were able to pull out the sort of UA T from the beginning of a custom project. And it's, it's all forward thinking, and I really love it. So if we get a little bit more into this, you know, just puts customer success right at the forefront. And I just love the concept.

Luiz Figueira  12:19

Sure, sure. The UHD strategy was key for us in the beginning, because at the beginning of each project, what we try to do is to sit with all the stakeholders, and we build together the UA t, that is part of the statement of work. And zero 80 is really journey driven. So when we establish that we say, Okay, for the client, what it means to validate that to accept that feature, or to accept this transformation role in the file, this kind of stuff for Gympass, what this means, but we need to validate what we need to accept, to make sure that what we are delivering is meeting our stakeholders expectations, you know, so was it a key piece for us, and it's been a key piece for us, because since the beginning, we calibrate all stakeholders expectations of what we will deliver, and what they need to accept. And as they need to accept something, they put the requirements, you know, they established, this is the way that I will accept that. So these helps a lot the work and the development of the custom solutions, for sure.

Jeff  13:23

Does it ever. Sorry, we both have had a lot of consulting. So you'll know where and getting on this one has has the UA T criteria ever change suddenly midway through the project? And you have to remind them that this is what they signed up for.

Luiz Figueira  13:38

Yeah, sometimes sometimes it can't. And this is funny, because, you know, as you know, every time this happened, you know, depending on the situation, but I think this is is one thing that that where you he brings value, you know, because and as we agreed that before, if you have some change, no problem, we will react to change. But it's important to have these well established since the beginning. So when someone says, oh, maybe I misunderstood, I was expecting that it's no problem, we can change. But remember that we design it that in the beginning, you know, so it's, it's more fair, in terms of we we do the changes, you know, requires?

Jeff  14:19

Yeah, I mean, I think what I'm hearing here is great in what that is you've got a higher sense of empathy that's going throughout your organization, because there's there's plenty of professional services type organizations that are like, like, ah, we've got you now. It says right here in the contract on line 24.7 that you needed X and you're asking, but I mean, things change, right? People's missin maybe might have misunderstood something, or, you know, what I saw when I was working on a lot of ecommerce websites is that you're halfway through a product project, excuse me. And requirements change or their competitor just came out. out with something that is the exact same thing, and they need to now leapfrog that competitor. And, you know, and, you know, software, you know, it just changes all the time and sounds like you've got a nice system in place for documenting and requiring, which enables you to have those sort of scope change conversations. But then it's not like you're, you're holding it against them, and it's going to cause lots of problems and negotiations and everything.

Luiz Figueira  15:26

And, you know, Jeff, I think, in the end, what we are trying to do is to reduce the complexity of the project, you know, because in the end software is complex. Yes, not a, for sure, that is not a rocket rocket science, every time but it's complex. And what we are trying to do with these techniques, for example, the UAV, is to try to reduce this complexity to make sure that we have a more clear path ahead, in order to implement the solution, you know, so I like to link in in terms of reusing the right techniques to reduce complexity as we work in a project driven mindset. Instead of product driven mindset, you know, right?

Jeff  16:09

When there's an important thing here, and I might have used harsher language, the first time I brought it up, like, you don't want to mess with the software, renewal or satisfaction, just because you want to be, you know, the project manager, or the year was the last change amounts and things like that, right. So a lot of times you can get in these conversations, but but I'm sorry, if you're in professional services for a software company, your your job is to make sure that the customer loves the implementation that you did. And they'll have, you know, the high NPS and the great feeling about your company as a whole. So that when renewal time happens, they're not going to be like, Oh, you guys screwed us during implementation. And or that was just a bad experience, and it's forever, you know, a bad taste in their mouth or anything like that. Yeah,

Luiz Figueira  17:06

yeah, it's, I think, the main challenge is to keep focused on bringing the best experience for our entire ecosystem, the clients, partners, and the users. And to track that, I think, what is really important to make sure that all the stakeholders are working towards the same goal, you know, that CD is this is the successful implementation of our product, you know, so in the end, what we are doing is to offering a really cool benefit to the to the company's employees, we are generating flow to the gyms and also we are allowing the users to find activity to love. So if you take a look into the ecosystem, and we make sure that everyone is satisfied, so we can see that professional services is enabling that you know, because in the end, when a company acquires gene pass, acquires in pass, they are acquiring the product, not to the project from professional services only, you know, so we are only a key piece of their satisfaction. And this is really, really challenging, if you think because if I don't think with this ecosystem mindset, this can be backfire. For me, I won't think about okay, I just need to deliver this project. And in the end, we are pushing to avoid this mindset here. You know, Jeff,

Jeff  18:26

absolutely. No, I mean, that's, that's, that's the key to it all. And I tell people, if they don't like that, sometimes, then perhaps they need to go work for either a product development group, or, you know, or they need to perhaps just go into normal consulting, like, sort of like what I did do now. And when you did at BCG, which is sort of you tell us what to build, and then go build it, because otherwise you work for a product company. And that's the most important thing is to ensure that satisfaction, so

Luiz Figueira  18:55

Exactly, exactly. Long are your car,

Jeff  18:59

your your sort of classic? Let's go for your package, sort of like you know, what we talked about the salespeople can hand out a data sheet and say, Here it is. So you get your standard sort of regular packages, and then sort of a custom implementation, if there's any sort of standard time for those.

Luiz Figueira  19:19

Yeah. So it's important to talk a little bit about the operating model again, because in the end, in the whole cycle that we have, is basically technical sales, engaging with the customers that are our partners and clients. And they bring the demand to us. I think, in average, we have one quarter project, you know, so this is how long it takes, you know, to test a solution. And I think more than that, we need to stop and think if we are not building more one feature to the products, that is not our role, you know, important to think about because We established these architecture boundaries to make sure that we will not create what the product should create. We are only a enabler to the product in a way that we can customize integration solutions to the clients and partners, you know, so generally really is quick projects should be, you know, should be, how,

Jeff  20:22

and how many sort of concurrent projects are going on in your department, sort of, in general at a time, or you have sort of, you know, I've seen it be like, No, we've got three, and then I've seen like, we've got 400. So I'm just curious.

Luiz Figueira  20:36

Yeah, so one thing that we are trying to deal with is with this, this, this amount of demands that are coming. So sometimes I have 10 projects in parallel, nowadays, we have three to four, you know, but as we define it, and operating model where we can leverage third parties, so partners from a huge ecosystem of software development, firms and others, this is easier to escalate. You know, though, in the end, if I have 10, or 20 projects going home, I just need to make sure that I have a professional services manager in place that calls a resource in our technical leads that, sure we are following our technical principles. In the end, they will leverage the third parties and also what we were trying to do is to are crediting 30 parties that will be able to work with us in a scalable way, you know,

Jeff  21:32

what, I'm sure you're curious, what either meetings or software are tracking, what do you have? How do you know, sort of on a week to week, month to month basis that these projects are, you know, going as planned, especially since you've got you know, some partners in the mix as well, dashboards, those types of things.

Luiz Figueira  21:51

Yeah, so we have a lot of tools to make sure we are tracking all the projects or the other initiatives. But I think part of the risk in terms of planning, we transferred to the to these partners, you know, that are working close with us. So basically, what we need to make sure is that we have at least a really clear timeline calibrated with all stakeholders, they UHT well designed and the other aspects of the statement of work, you know, to avoid in any problem during the project, you know, and assure that we try to try to calibrate the time of implementation, as we as we just we just talk, if we are going further with time, maybe we need to stop and think if we are going to the right direction, you know, if we are not creating more one, Frank Stein our products

Jeff  22:45

it happens to everybody. I can think of one off the top of my head when you said like the quarter and if it's longer than that, and I remembered like a year and a half long project for for something, but that was, you know, sometimes you you sell into a company, and then they have many companies underneath that, and you try and create this sort of standardized framework that everybody's gonna kind of come on to, and then you can get into those situations, but it's, you're right. When I look at it now, I laugh and like, yeah, why did we spend a year like, you know, it should have been, you know, three months tops, so that it happens.

Luiz Figueira  23:25

And I think what is great, you know, Jeff, in the end, that we have outstanding people here, and they are always framing the problem in a way that we can deliver better to our clients and partners, you know, so I think as everyone here has a deep knowledge on not only technology, but in product management, digital topics, and even business, we can frame in a way that we are always evolving, you know, because is a is a is a recent born area, you know, we need to react fast and evolve fast, you know, right.

Jeff  23:58

Absolutely. Speaking. So what's your speaking of reacting and fast but I know last time we chatted, I said, you know, so what's the current initiative that you're working on to help sort of push things forward? Do you know I'm sort of going through sort of that right now?

Luiz Figueira  24:15

Sure, for sure, for sure. I think the the main challenge that will will, that will will generate the main initiatives is to keep focus with a straightforward approach to the lever, the tailored solutions. So we are really focused on that. As I said, it's easier to get distracted because we are growing exponentially. So what we are trying to do is to make focus on the integration initiatives for our partners and for our clients. In our part from that finding the right talents is a key piece for us. So for whom, learning we have an exciting journey ahead, as I said, in the end is only the beginning and future feature check our job opportunities, this is really

Jeff  25:04

great. I mean, absolutely, I'm going to make sure I post those links. So when I update the podcast, and put it up, so I am trying to pull these in just to be a little tighter and shorter. So I appreciate getting down to business and answering a lot of these questions. So that's awesome. So any any sort of last thoughts or things that you wanted to sort of highlight or go over?

Luiz Figueira  25:28

I think that's it, Jeff, what maybe I think is the is the key point here is that when I see all these product companies, they are needing, you know, to adapt themselves in a way that they create professional services function as enablement to scale fast, you know, in a way that they will not impact their product core, we are doing that we are being successfully with this approach. And more important, we are reacting fast to change that are coming. So I think this is the final thought, you know, I think this is an amazing way to think about professional services, enabling these product companies that are coming to our market, you know,

Jeff  26:11

that's great. And I can just tell, you know, from our conversations, that, you know, even if you move on, you know, somewhere else in five years, or whatever it happens to be, you're always gonna look back at this experience and be very proud of sort of what you've put together. So it's great stuff. So if you don't mind, I'd love to like set an appointment, we put the actual account of blending together now. But I'd love to chat in like six months and to see sort of where you guys are at now or maybe bring you on to a panel where we're a bunch of leaders get together and talk about some best practices as well too.

Luiz Figueira  26:47

Amazing, Jeff, I'm looking forward for it for sure that

Jeff  26:51

absolutely, absolutely. Well, I know we're getting to the end of the day on a Friday. So I appreciate this being hopefully your last work related thing, and you get to enjoy a nice weekend down there.

Luiz Figueira  27:04

Thanks a lot, Jeff. For you too.

Jeff  27:06

Awesome. Thanks. I'm gonna stop recording. I'll just say one last thing. And so let me just hit that button. Like

Luiz Figueira  27:12

amazing