GSD Podcast - Voice of the Customer Programs With Dana Alvarenga
In today's rapidly evolving business landscape, customer service has transcended its traditional boundaries to become an integral part of marketing strategies. Companies are realizing the immense potential of community engagement and customer advocacy in driving customer-led growth. In a recent conversation between Jeff and Dana, two industry experts, they delved into the significance of fostering a strong customer voice and building an active community to maximize marketing efforts. Let's explore their insightful discussion further.
The Rise of Customer Marketing Software:
Dana, who works at SlapFive, a customer marketing software company, shared her role in helping customer marketers mobilize customers to drive growth at scale. One key aspect is the creation of customer voice and advocacy programs, where customers have the freedom to choose the activities they want to participate in. Gone are the days of managing referrals through spreadsheets; a more coordinated approach between sales and customer marketing is crucial.
Tracking Advocacy for Revenue Impact:
Dana emphasized the need to track customer advocacy to understand its influence on revenue and pipeline. By measuring the number of advocates, and their engagement levels, and analyzing data, companies can identify trends and refine their strategies. Authentic customer voices during the onboarding stage carry more weight than scripted marketing content. This approach resonates with customers, especially in the B2B world, where peer recommendations hold significant sway.
Expanding the Scope of Advocacy:
Jeff agreed that capturing authentic customer voices during the onboarding stage is vital. He appreciated the shift from traditional marketing tactics to real customer experiences and testimonials. Dana pointed out that the pandemic has accelerated the acceptance of authentic voices, with customers preferring to hear from their peers rather than polished marketing campaigns. Jeff mentioned scenarios where customers are selected for speaking engagements based on their willingness and previous activities, rather than simply seeking favors.
The Connection between Customer Advocacy and Revenue:
Dana stressed that customer advocacy programs should be offered to all customers, and the selection of advocates should consider factors like product fit and relationship trust. Jeff and Dana highlighted the potential influence of customer advocacy on sales and pre-sales activities. By tracking revenue influenced by customer interactions, such as referrals, reference calls, and content views, companies can drive adoption, renewals, and expansions.
Expanding Customer Voice Programs:
Dana discussed the various programs encompassed within customer voice initiatives, such as customer advisory boards (CABs) and design partner sessions. CABs involve C-level executives, product teams, and customer marketing and success functions, driving collaboration and shaping product development. Jeff shared his surprise at product groups resisting customer input and emphasized the importance of incorporating customer feedback into product development.
Building a Thriving Customer Community:
Dana stressed the value of internal and customer-exclusive programs like meetups, webinars, and peer-to-peer networking events. These programs foster a sense of community and provide powerful insights. Dana also mentioned backstage passes, where customers share experiences and challenges with their peers, creating a valuable feedback loop. Customer voice can be captured at different layers and shared internally for product feedback or within the customer community.
The conversation between Jeff and Dana highlighted the increasing importance of community engagement and customer advocacy in modern marketing strategies. By harnessing the power of authentic customer voices, companies can drive customer-led growth, enhance customer experiences, and strengthen brand loyalty. Incorporating customer voice programs, tracking advocacy, and building a thriving customer community are key steps toward success in today's dynamic business landscape.
Listen to the full podcast here.
Transcript:
Jeff 00:00
All right, Dana, we're rolling. All right. This is great. Because we met at Paulson, I think the only reason why we met was because I showed a picture of where it was, which had probably the largest collection of bottles I've ever seen in a bar. Is that correct?
Dana Alvarenga 00:44
Correct. I was not, I was not going to go to the to the meetup of a random bar. And then I'm like, oh, wait a second. Like, it's a good time.
Jeff 00:54
By the way, that's the place where we'll see each other again soon.
Dana Alvarenga 00:56
yeah, I know. I know.
Jeff 00:58
That's amazing. So, again, you do something which I know nothing about, which is fantastic. Because now I can just pick your brain on these things. Right. So talk to me a little bit about what you're doing. And then we're gonna get into like, where you are, what you're doing. And the whole thing that we're going to talk today about is how to influence revenue with a customer program. So voice of the customer advocacy, referral calls cabs, all that fun stuff, we actually, I hope we'll get through it all. If not, we'll just do a part two. But, but like, talk to me a little about slot five, what you guys do in there?
Dana Alvarenga 01:33
Yeah, definitely. So slept five is a customer marketing software. And we work with customer marketers to help mobilize
Jeff 01:47
members getting really emphasized. Yeah.
Dana Alvarenga 01:51
So well, it's it's it's customer, because it's not necessarily customer voice sometimes gets bucketed into like product or feedback. So like, No, this is, this is for the customer marketers. And they're the ones that are mobilizing customers to drive customer led growth at scale. So I am tagline of customer voice coach, customer success manager, Head of Customer experience all of that with our customers and helping them craft customer voice programs. And just overall customer advocacy programs where customers are able to kind of elect what activities they're willing to do and how they want to share their voice versus the traditional way where people just go out and beg people to speak at events or beg them or bribe them to do a do a webinar. So yeah, exactly what's in the script.
Jeff 02:43
So I'm going to show you how, where my knowledge is on this, right. So I'm used to having the spreadsheet at a company, right, and it has all the customers listed that are okay for referral calls. And then some salesperson reaches out to me, and they're like, Hey, can we talk to XYZ? And I'm like, Oh, let me look at the spreadsheet. Um, yeah, looks like they've done five calls in the last week for us. So might want to switch over somebody else. That's where my knowledge ends on this whole thing, by the way, like,
Dana Alvarenga 03:15
Yeah, well, that's, that's good. You at least do that, though. Stop it after like the five calls. Because that I mean, and that's where a lot of lot of people that that I partner and work with that they're coming up with these spreadsheets, but they have their own spreadsheets, but then sales has their own little black book of other customers that they're talking to that nobody knows about, or it's not tracked. So
Jeff 03:35
when you told me that sales occasionally goes rogue?
Dana Alvarenga 03:40
Oh, yes, oh, yes, I've done it. I've been in a sales role, or I've done it, I mean, you have that that one or two customers who you've just built that really great relationship with and you know, you can go to them and ask them, so it's still good to do that. But it needs to be tracked, see, see when this customer sharing their voice no matter how formal or informal it is, because it can prove kind of how it's influencing revenue and pipeline within your organization. And showing that your customers are, are out there advocating for you versus having no idea? Absolutely.
Jeff 04:13
I really love how you sort of have been associating revenue with advocacy. You know, it's usually for me, there's this, you know, start to finish customer journey and the very end, even after renewals that that is advocacy. And I always say like, you know, we're not pushing for just renewals. We want these people to be out there taking reference calls, getting on stage talking about how great your software is, and it's the one thing that they'll fight to the death for with their CFO. Right. Yeah, sounds like you've been able to find a way to kind of operationalize that instead of, as I said, having that random spreadsheet like, Oh, do we want to have for a cab or, you know, this year and things like that?
Dana Alvarenga 04:53
Yeah. And not having advocacy be after renewal. I totally would, would fight against that. I say it's right at onboarding When a customer comes on, that's when they're the most happy. That's when they've either gotten over the pain of what product they are moving off of, or migrating from or changing off of. So you're able to ask them either kind of right up front, what triggered the need to, to make a change? Or what? What can you what can you now do better. So capturing that customer success can do this during onboarding, if there's an implementation team, they can capture this on a zoom call, slice that out of the Zoom recording, you have a one or two minute asset that's amazing that can be shared internally, externally, that's customer voice. It's that authentic voice of your customer, nothing that's scripted or prepared for it's just asking those real meaty questions and making them an advocate right out of the gate. So you don't have to wait till after Renewal by any means.
Jeff 05:47
That's I took notes, which means that dim, dimly lit light bulb went off a little bit, because that's that, of course, that makes total sense right there. They just got off some crappy vendor, or they weren't using something. And now it's like, Oh, my God, I just saved X amount of time and things like that. The other thing that you said I loved was the it's kind of authentic. I'm used to people sending out like a camera crew. And it's this big thing, which means it never happens. Tell me, let's get into that a little bit like,
Dana Alvarenga 06:15
yes, so no drugs. So I want
Jeff 06:18
to talk about this beforehand, too. This is totally like,
Dana Alvarenga 06:22
in whenever I talk about this, I always say I have like a one line in every presentation, every talk that I've done, I'm like, no more drones of headquarters, like none of your product. Or drone shot is no one cares, drones.
Jeff 06:36
I just remember like, right, so the drone will fly over the salt mines when we had Morton's. And we have the big average.
Dana Alvarenga 06:44
Yeah, nobody cares about that. Your customers want to hear what their peers are doing, how their life is better, what challenges they've faced, what roadblocks happened during implementation, all of that, like that's the key. And I think, I think the pandemic actually had a benefit to push authentic customer voice as well. Because look at us, we're sitting, I'm in my spare bedroom, you're in your, your family room like that, that's normal. Yeah, three years ago, people would have to like put a sheet up behind them or think they have to sit by a blank wall, like those barriers have been broken. So I think more and more people are expecting that authentic boys, just because of how we're interacting in it in a b2b world. In that place, I think a key role with with building that trust of your it's you don't need marketing speaker, those big logos, my CEO to set a webinar a couple weeks ago, and he was like, those happy quotes are great, but like you don't need them all over your website. And that's the truth. like yay, a great happy quote is good to share for some internal buzz or have kind of one on your website, but pair it with a customer saying it in their authentic voice or like doing something about it. You don't need all of this fancy marketing speak or fancy video crew or ring lights and all of that. You don't you don't need it, because it's what the person saying and how they're saying it that that's important.
Jeff 08:05
You'd rather have the the crazy cat lady throwing five cats out of the way and recording something and the 15 cats, she took the time to record a video. That's how much she loves our software. Yeah, it's
Dana Alvarenga 08:22
true. It's true. And it makes it that you know, they it's not scripted, they weren't told what to say. And then your customers, once they start to share their voice in this authentic way, they are more apt to do it more for you. And you don't have to go out searching or begging. Like I've worked in an organization years ago, where we had a sales kickoff, and it was like, Oh, my God, what customers can we get to speak at the sales kickoff? Like, it was horrible. It was horrible to find this and now like with customers that I'm coaching and that we're working with, when they have an SQL, they know their customers that onboarded with them, sign up with a customer voice program forum, what activities they are willing to do. So they go into slap five, they can see Oh, who? Who do I want to see him and this could be a spreadsheet doesn't have to be slapped five, but you just can filter down who said yes to speak at an SEO. And you look at what they have done, how long they've been with you and you have someone in your giving them an opportunity versus begging them for a favor.
Jeff 09:20
Yeah. Was that when do you broach this conversation with the client with a new customer? Right? Because to me, this sounds like it's very natural and it flows versus I'm used to it. Everybody be like No, no, like, don't talk to them. They're still waiting on this feature. We don't want to piss them off. Like Like, it does this. Like when you reach out to the customer and say, Hey, we've got this. We've got this advocacy program. We want to get you involved. Is it everybody? Is it selective like just walk me through that.
Dana Alvarenga 09:53
Yeah, I think that depends on the structure of the company. Like what what the product is if it's so that are not SAS. I mean, I think that that plays a role into it. But I always recommend like offering it to all. And it's right at onboarding if it's the customer success manager or after implementation, that they're welcomed into this formalized program branded like mine is the slap five rock stars, because I want to make my clients rock stars on and off stage, like, that's my motto of what I want them to do. So branding it, I mean, there's champions accelerate, like, that's always the one that's out there. And they're able to elect what they want. And then when you need to look for that key person for referral call for a reference call for a webinar, you know where to go to, but you also have that trusted contact attached to that client. Because customer advocacy can be owned, in marketing, it can be owned in customer success, it can be owned in product, and it could be anywhere, but there needs to be that trusted contact, which usually is a customer success manager, you want to always just have that trusted contact attributed with that advocate to make sure like you mentioned, they're not waiting on a feature. Or maybe they're at the risk of turning like you don't want to have an angry person coming up. That's, that's authentic, but you don't want them.
Jeff 11:13
You want to speak with me? Oh, she wants 10 Bugs yesterday? Yeah, I'm not going to ask her.
Dana Alvarenga 11:18
Yeah. So you do have that added layer. But but with knowing you're not, you're not fishing for it's not as difficult when you go fishing, because you know, the list has shrunk down to see who said yes. And then you just partner with those trusted contacts within your organization.
Jeff 11:35
So you're talking about the influence revenue, because let's talk about that, especially if you're trying to say, Hey, if you bought us our software, you're gonna definitely increase revenue, like, how does that happen? Is that just through this ability to influence calls and pre sales? Or what am I missing out here.
Dana Alvarenga 11:54
So you can influence revenue by the different like specific events. So if you're tracking back when a customer but an opportunity started with from a referral, for example, or from a reference call, if there was customer content views of customer assets, like a PDF of a case study or a blog post that was written by a customer on site visits, if that applies, so you would you would look at either like renewal rate, or renewal renewal dollar value of your customers in the program versus customers who are not in the program is an also revenue tracker that you could look at, for revenue, influenced by content push to customers, that will help drive the adoption or other factors for renewals. So it's not just for new leads, new business, but this can also help with tracking renewals and expansions within your company. So just what when, when it's used? If you have you have an opportunity, New Deal or renewal track when there are things being shared with that customer or conversations with other customers that are happening? That will play a key key role in being able to see if your customers are helping to influence revenue?
Jeff 13:07
Absolutely. So what are these programs? Not because we were chatting about it, you're definitely like, Okay, we gotta go over some things that they're not I didn't get into what they were. So now I'm asking you like, well, how can you use this? You know, where are the lines?
Dana Alvarenga 13:22
Yeah, I mean, it's, it's not just a product feedback. Customer voice, I think gets bucketed into Oh, it's product feedback for products like, yes, that's an aspect of it. But if you have you're kind of branch out of micro programs, which would be something like having a format for peer to peer networking, so that that's what it is. But it's not necessarily just a user group where the the key users are in there. Yeah, you want to get feedback from not only like the users of the platform, but also the executive sponsors, or the ones who signed off on the contract. So there's different layers. So that's where also it's not, as you mentioned earlier, it's not just a cap customer voice is not a customer, right? Because that just takes your executives, ideally, you're not getting the customer voice from from the users that are day in and day out in the product. They're usually the visionaries that are in your cab. So who owns the cab? Um, that's a good question. So I personally in a customer advocacy education role have owned it, and it failed, because we didn't have executive leadership buy in from all different parts. So it has to be owned, I think from the top down from from the C level executives that it's something that needs to be done not just the board saying, Oh, do a cab. That's where I was failed, like, oh, they said do it but nobody supported it. And so I think that where customer advisory boards are most successful is when Yes, a CEO or a chief customer officer are heavily involved. And then there's product because they want to be giving product roadmap product feedback, and then having customer whoever's owning the customer marketing function in there, and that customer marketing function is going to play a key role with, again, Trusted Contacts, what ends up being customer success, customer success are always kind of that partner, they're that middle person between marketing and sales. And, and they need to be that, that bridge that makes sure that the right people are there. And that they're involved.
Jeff 15:33
Yeah, no, I It's funny, I've had to run it. And but every time I did, it was more of this, like, you know, try partnership between product and marketing as well, too. And I always kind of like, say thank God products. For me, I've not seen product groups that want to take part in these things, for some bizarre reason. They'll talk about it and board meetings and everything else, but they really don't want to hear, they don't want that airing of the grievances as I call it with Scott. Like they just there's there's some funky thing there. That's why I wanted to ask you about that. Because I found if we just left voice of the customer, or sorry, the cab to product where it might rightfully sit in some points, it's not going to get done. And it's not going to be looked at, whereas you kind of forced them into it. And it's kind of like, you know, this is a group, it's a partnership, we're all running this, we all have responsibility for it. And we also need to take that feedback. And then the next time that we meet, go over that. And so if you've heard 15 features or ideas, and didn't do any of them, you might have to explain some of that. Right?
Dana Alvarenga 16:39
Yeah. And that's where I look to try to actually distinguish between the customer advisory board and what I now call a design partner session. So we bring in, we bring in the users, the customer advisory board is usually typically for more of the executive kind of visionary leaders, right? Like what's what's going to get them using the product to help them drive them away more revenue, or have them have strategic growth initiatives tied to your product kind of that discussion. And then the design partner sessions are the users in the tool. And it's talking about one feature. So we actually do this at our company, at least like once a quarter, we just had one a couple weeks ago of our next big feature release. And we have a mock up, we have kind of where we're at and get feedback of will you use this this way? How will you use it this way, and it get all that feedback and go back to the developers. And that's how we build our new big features with customers. I mean, it's customer led growth right there, we have our customers in there giving the feedback because we can have the vision the whole time. This is great. But if you don't get into the nitty gritty of functionality with the users, it's not gonna be adopted as well or as fast.
Jeff 17:48
I'm 100% into it. I you know, I'm just always shocked when I see product groups be like, No, we're going to drive and we don't want our customers owning our roadmap and things like that. And it just doesn't seem the smartest way to go about things. That's all I'll say on that note. So
Dana Alvarenga 18:04
yeah, and that's customer voice right there, too. I mean, that's customer voice that we're bringing back internally, to our product, team after product isn't on this, these calls, we do it without them, and then bring it back the info to them and the recordings and the key insights. But I mean, that's customer voice that's you're using, and you're bringing it internally, because customer voice doesn't always have to be outwards, it could be internal to.
Jeff 18:27
So I'm seeing all these different initiatives and seeing how they're now sort of blanketed under this one thing, if there's always that voice of the customer go vote on features and that whole thing, but then again, if you expose those, you have to make sure that people are actually taking those things into into into advisory and things like that. super interesting. Do I guess it would vary company and company? I'm wondering how to differentiate where you like, Okay, this is my cab group. And then you're talking about the features in your creative design group? Do you open those invitations up for everybody? Or do you reach out to just like specific groups that you think would be good for this particular feature? Like, they're like, are all of your customers in this program are like opt in essentially, where you can say, hey, we're looking for five companies to come in and listen to this type of a feature?
Dana Alvarenga 19:28
Yeah, we I mean, so when customers come on board, they sign up with a rockstar form of of what activities they want to be given opportunities to so design partners one but it doesn't apply to all because not everyone's using the product the same way or using all of the same features. So we invite it based on based on use cases and where some of the clients are growing. But it's the whole entire customer voice program. underneath it. is are these, like we mentioned the cab the Product Design session and I call them micro programs. So there's the meetups, there's them being having the opportunity to be a speaker on a webinar in person. And then there's specialized also customer voice, peer to peer networking sharing, I actually call it the backstage pass, I have one this week, that it's just customers. So we do like a lot of community generated webinars community content for the whole entire customer marketing world, but try to do specific does customer focused ones where one customer is doing something really great, they just, they just launched something or they had a great internal training, taking what they learned or what challenges they have, and then bring it back on a live zoom with just customers that they can go BikeSafe behind the curtain backstage pass with our other rock star and love, love a theme in there, and they get to kind of see what what their peers did, because we can, I can say it till I'm blue in the face of oh, so and so customer did this this way, or here's their debt that they use, and it's like, oh, great, and it gets pushed to the wayside. But when they actually hear, again, the authentic voice, like live on Zoom call of what their peer did, and what challenges they had. And they feel like Oh, I'm not alone, that has been a super powerful, powerful program. And again, it's assets that are used just internally amongst the customers. So there's all different layers of how you can capture customer voice, if it doesn't always need to be put back out to onto social or onto your website. It can be shared just within the community of your customers, or shared internally, if it's product feedback, also. So you have to look at all of the layers of customer voice.
Jeff 21:40
No, it's interesting. And I'm trying not to, you know, emails, I'm not trying to do slide five ad or anything like that. But I am curious, do you have the whole like community element in there as well to where people are just talking like, either via Slack channel, or like a forum or things like that, where people are just helping each other talking about different ways, right? Because those are great places for product and marketing to go in and just sort of see how customers are talking about your software and everything.
Dana Alvarenga 22:08
Yeah, so that's another piece of building this kind of customer voice program, I always recommend a place for people to go if you don't have a community, Slack, we have a Slack community. So we have a large Slack community with the customer X community. So it's a community like not for profit community, customer x is what we run our annual conference on, I just happens to be the two founders are at slot five, but it's the customer X community. And there's like 1600 Customer X professionals. So x is like customer experience, customer marketing, customer reference customer advocacy in there, and then I have a private dedicated channel just for slapped by rockstars where they can talk amongst themselves, but they're mixed into the group of all of the whole community. So I've kind of done a play of using our greater community and then have my own kind of private channel where the customers can interact and talk about specific slapped by things because it's not a slap pipe community. It's the customer X community with a channel about Slack vibe. Interesting.
Jeff 23:07
Know your customers, were one of the size of customers usually series A through you know, public and things like that, that that get into this type of activity. Do you see more? Anywhere? Right, right. That was what the answer was, but it wasn't Yeah, yeah.
Dana Alvarenga 23:24
Yeah. Anywhere small startups all the way up to enterprise in public, everywhere.
Jeff 23:30
So that question was to lean into this next one, let's say on a small startup, right? So your five person CS team, who is owning this initiative on the CS side.
Dana Alvarenga 23:45
If there is no one doing advocacy in marketing, it's usually the head of the team. So it's, it's someone I'm talking with actually now know, she's a VP of Customer Success. And, and she owns it, because they don't have additional time right now for a headcount per customer marketer. So they need to build the initiative, build a program, and then prove, again, the revenue that's influenced by what their customers are doing.
Jeff 24:09
Yeah, interesting. And then and then I'm assuming company gets bigger, they hire a customer marketer. And I actually started, I've seen some larger companies where they're hiring that under CES, instead of having a dotted line. And virgin. We had that too. By the way, we had a whole customer marketing team, because, you know, the, especially when you're selling into b2b, but then they've got like users that there that are not, you know, the people buying the software and not the ones using the software. It's like a b2b, b2c approach. That's where it makes a lot of sense, as well to like, you need a marketing team that's not focused on the external message you're focusing on, you know, more of like how to get users engaged and things like that.
Dana Alvarenga 24:50
Exactly. Yeah. I mean, customer marketing and customer advocacy, I think years ago. It grew out of either two sides it was on ces because the marketing side was on demand gen, you know, they were just just focused on demand gen, or the kind of more forward thinking marketing companies knew that it needs to be differentiated between demand gen and in working with the whole customer lifecycle, as well with customer marketing. In some places, it's under product. I mean, literally, it's not one spot where it is it's just, it's, it's what you're doing. It doesn't matter what department you're under, you're, you're advocating for your customers, you're driving influence revenue, if you're doing it right with what you're doing with your customers, and in helping helping all of all of those other aspects, you're helping product with feedback on the product, we're helping CES with getting customers that will renew and are happy and will speak on events, you're getting sales, references and referrals. So you really, it's that spoke, where you're, you're in all the different departments with dotted lines, as you mentioned,
Jeff 25:53
yeah, it's funny, because this is usually an afterthought for me, and just hearing of all these different activities, I'm glad that you've kind of wrapped it under sort of one movement, and then also attributed it to revenue, because there's lots of stuff that we do, that we think is great for the customers that is not exactly you know, there's always a soft thing, you know, do right by your customers, and they'll renew and everything but this, this seems like you can definitely point to the revenue and how to influence it a lot, a lot better and a lot more scalable as well, too. So yeah, yeah, exactly. What did I miss here? Because, you know, we're making these short and sweet. So people can listen to them on their dog walks in their their car rides and everything. But are there any aspects of this whole customer program, Voice of the Customer, the cab, all the things we've talked about today? You know, thing, I'm always viewing this as like, I'm a new CS leader. This is all new to me. But I know I should be doing it like in. Yeah,
Dana Alvarenga 26:54
I would say I mean, you need to start somewhere. If you're if you're not tracking this, start to track it, get a spreadsheet, figure out like the number of advocates measure how many you have month over month, quarter over quarter and define what an advocate is to on top of that, how many companies have more than one advocate versus just one. And then engagements, be able to like look, slice and dice the different activities that your advocates have participated in, break it down by customer industry, product competitors, replace, maybe see some, see some trends there and just do your homework have what you have internally, see what you have, see what data you have and information you have from what customers have done today. And build a plan from there.
Jeff 27:37
Awesome. Super helpful. Now we're gonna get into the fun stuff. So it's May here in Boston, we're both like, I think we live like 20 minutes away from each other. So besides, besides brushing off, just mounds of pollen off your car this spring. Yes. What do you what do you have lined up for the springtime for fun stuff? By the way, I know you've got little kids and everything. So it's usually just you know, Uber momming. You know, in between Yeah.
Dana Alvarenga 28:04
Yeah, we have dance recitals coming up.
Jeff 28:08
Mother's Day dance recital coming. Oh, absolutely.
Dana Alvarenga 28:11
Yeah. Oh, yeah. So we have but I like to go now that the like area farms are open and hopefully getting the fruit picking when that happens. All of that fun stuff I like to do on the weekends. And just backyard barbecue my husband's Brazilian. So we do. We do backyard barbecues pretty regularly and before it gets too hot. So just hanging out and enjoying being outside.
Jeff 28:34
Yeah, dump. Pro tip there's a farm out in like the Natick area. That is really good. But if you go to that playground, that's right in the middle of it, you're gonna get bitten by bees. It's something about all the sugar. So bad. I remove that from the podcast as well like, I'm going to hit stop on this and thanks so much. I'll see you next week out in San Fran but just hold on one second, and we'll wind up and we'll we'll grab all your LinkedIn stuff, put them in the post and everything like that. And thanks so much because again, area I know nothing about and it's super important. Revenue focus. They love it. And thanks again Dana. Appreciate it.
Dana Alvarenga 29:15
Thank you